[podcast_motor_player url=”https://episodes.seriouslysimplepodcasting.com/PodcastMotorShow/023_-Using-Your-Podcast-to-Launch-a-Bestselling-Book-with-Marylou-Tyler.mp3″ title=”023: Using Your Podcast to Launch a BestSelling Book with Marylou Tyler”]
Craig: Hello and welcome to The PodcastMotor Show. I’m your host Craig Hewitt. Here each week, we’re going to bring on the best and brightest minds from Podcasting for them to share exactly what’s working with their shows right now. We’re going to show you how to grow your listenership, build your online brand and engage with your community more effectively. Let’s jump into the show.
Today, I’m excited to bring onto the show Marylou Tyler. Marylou is a bestselling author, multiple times now I believe, and has added podcasting to her arsenal of content to promote a new book that she has. Marylou, welcome to the show.
Marylou: Thank you for having me, pleasure to be here.
Craig: No, it’s great. One of my favorite things about podcasting is that the breadth of types of people that podcast and the reasons that they all podcast. I think your example is another good case study in that is that you have a very specific reason that you wanted to start podcasting. You want to just share with the folks a little bit about why you got started podcasting and the reason behind that, and what it’s done for you recently?
Marylou: Sure, I’d be happy to share that. The first and foremost reason was that I published a book. The book just drove that need to reach out to a lot more people. I had been pretty happy in my little cave after the release of our first book, Predictable Revenue, back in 2011. I worked with clients and I’m a coach and consultant so I take on a handful of clients a quarter which worked really great. And then I met up with my co-author Jeremy Donovan who I did an immersion program with and his response to me after that program was, “Marylou, you need to write a book about this, this is something that no one has taught us. You owe it to the world to get your content out there.”
Writing a book was one thing but then I realized, “Oh, I have to actually market it now and actually reach out to people to let them know it’s there. I looked at a number of channels and I felt that because I am introvert and because I am not necessarily the life of the party on stage, that I would try podcasting. I reached out, or somehow I reached out to you or I reached out to you, I can’t remember how we connected. It’s the best thing I ever did.
Craig: That’s good to hear. We’ve been working together for eight months or so I guess on your show. Predictable Prospecting has 50 or so episodes at this point. To back up a little bit from a business perspective, I can really relate to what you’re saying that selling consulting services, PodcastMotor at this time is a glorified consultancy or service agency. Now, we’re looking at moving into a couple of different types of products so I can absolutely relate that selling a service is often really cut in dry, a lot of it is higher touch sales and relationships and referrals and things like that, selling a product on the scale, especially of a book, is very different.
From a mindset perspective for you, was it difficult to look at marketing channels and things that would have to really scale, like podcasting, blogging or speaking, as opposed to things you did to sell your consulting services?
Marylou: It was night and day. Consulting services was referral, which is kind of interesting because my book is about cold outreach. I do practice what I preach, but I didn’t do it on the level that’s necessary to get books in hand. There were a number of different channels I could look at but I felt that this one was a way for people to get to know me and the passion I have behind the product that I created, the book. Also, to be able to help my audience by having this wonderful series of interviews with colleagues from all over the world who are implementing top of funnel prospecting, so it gives my audience the ability to not only learn from me but to tune in to my colleagues who all have specialties, who have expertise, and we all fit together.
It’s a beautiful process that I don’t think I could’ve done had I looked at other channels, like speaking. I will probably speak, you can only reach a few people at a time sitting in an audience, but with podcasting you can reach people all over the world. I have heard from people all over the world who do listen to the podcast and thank me for doing it.
Craig: That’s amazing, isn’t it? I go to conferences or something and inevitably, people know me through podcasting and the podcast that I do or I’ve guest appeared on. For me, it’s by far the biggest channel of building our reputation and credibility with people, which leads to the question, you’ve had all guests on your shows, like co-hosts, I think maybe one. How have you approached selecting guests for your show in the lens of adding value for listeners in the realm of your book, in the end it’s a marketing channel and you want to get your word out as much as possible. How did you approach that balance of going to get someone on the show who really has a lot of great things to say but also want to have someone on the show who’s going to help market the show itself and grow our listenership? I think they’re not always the same person.
Marylou: No, you’re right. I really went in more with the attitude of providing value first and not really worrying about the marketing aspect of it, but that’s just my nature. I am that kind of person. It’s actually when you put good quality work out there, the other part lines up very nicely. Because of my interviewing people, I’ve been asked to be interviewed on their podcast for example. It’s like having joint venture partners that you really didn’t plan on but they have a reach, they have an audience that I don’t necessarily have, so there’s a good synergy there.
What I did is because I specialize in top of funnel prospecting, prospecting is a process for us, I looked in and around the internet doing searches on groups, on forums, just getting a vibe from my ideal prospect of who they listen to, how they consume content, where they go, and I compile the list of the potential colleagues that I think would add value to my network. That’s how I went about it. I actually would use the same for my new book, chapters one through three, is all about targeting. I ran through my own process to find a good list of colleagues to interview for the podcast.
Craig: That’s interesting. These weren’t necessary people that you knew ahead of time?
Marylou: Not at all, and that’s the beauty of this too. I reach out to people I don’t know all the time, inviting them on the podcast. It’s a great opener because you’re asking them to share their expertise and so it’s all about them. You go in with that mindset on that cold email or that cold outreach if I leave them a message, and the success rate is in the high 90s of people who will say yeah I’ll come on. They may be a little tentative, a little shy. The beauty of podcasting too, my show is not live, so they can talk to me for the hour and we can piece together a nice conversation or retake something. It’s not like you have to be perfect like when you’re on stage, you pretty much have to be on.
Craig: For sure. Did you have a lot of first time podcasters that came through the ranks? How did you manage that expectation setting with guests?
Marylou: Some guests want more of a structured approach so for them I worked on sending them questions ahead of time. I prefer more conversational because in sales when we’re prospecting, we are listening to our prospect and listening to what they are telling us and then working our next question or suggestion based on the response. I prefer that kind of conversational podcast, but the newbies, some of them were a little uncomfortable with that. I would send them questions ahead of time, I had a few people write out the entire script, they felt better doing that, and we said the script. It really depends.
I work with the folks that I’m talking to, the ones who have been doing this longer may or may not be more comfortable with a conversation. But, some have a brand that they’re trying to really encapsulate so they’re more formal and then they send me a script, so it really depends.
Craig: It’s interesting, I’ve not heard that level of involvement on prepping a guest, but that’s great. It’s nice to be able to work with whatever your guest is comfortable with.
Marylou: Remember, I’m B2B. I’m working with corporate colleagues and they’re six figure people for the most part. There’s a little bit more formality in some cases, and that’s why there is probably more prep than what you’re used to.
Craig: We’re getting into working with some folks in financial services industries. The amount of regulation they have over everything they put out is for us and working with people like you, entrepreneurs and small businesses and startups is very different, it’s something to think about that they have to have everything planned out and reviewed before it goes out the door. That’s a layer of involvement that you don’t always expect coming from our perspective.
Now, it’s been six or eight months since the book has launched, I know it’s a process like we were talking about before a little bit. You’ve never done launching a book. How did it go and as much as you want to or care to share, how did the launch overall go?
Marylou: It was really fun, it went very well. We hit number one our first week on Amazon. What we did that may be different from some of your other podcasters which I want to share with your audience is that I front ended a full month’s worth of podcasts. The book launched in August. In August, I had podcast interviews every single day. I’ve since backed off on that to four to five a month but that first everyday in your face Marylou Tyler with a guest was really a good way to get people excited, it was almost like an event. It felt like an event and we were able to celebrate the event by giving them some great content of their favorite people.
I’ve got authors that theoretically would be competitors but they’re not, they’re colleagues. I see them that way. I had a full line up of people, the movers and shakers, in our industry in August ready to go. It was really fun.
Craig: I love that. When you approached me with that idea, I said to myself that’s a lot of content, but you had almost all of them done when we first started talking. That’s a testament to your ability to great content because that is often the limiting factor when someone says, “Hey, I want to start a podcast. How many episodes do I need?” I say at least five. I would want to have ten if I was launching a new show today because stuff happens, you go on vacation or someone’s sick, or your guest can’t make it because they have a conflict or whatever, and your ability to create content is about half of what you think it is.
When you came and said, “I want to launch with an episode everyday in August, 30 episodes,” I said wow, that’s amazing, she’s going to be cranking out episodes for a long time because your ability to create content is really high. I’m sure that had an impact on the show’s success overall but also how that related to book sales and the whole launch of your product.
Marylou: Yes, there’s a direct correlation between the listeners and people who have signed up on my website, my list, my opt-in list has grown tremendously. That was the byproduct of the podcast as well is that I now have a really strong email list for people that if I want to add more services besides coaching, which right now I’m working on an online class for example, I have just a lot of different channels for revenue that didn’t exist before I started the podcast.
Craig: I know that a lot of the premise around predictable brand, so your first and second book are about measurable and scalable processes, outreach and these sorts of things. I know that you have an eye on analytics and measuring the ROI of the podcast and how much traffic and new eyeballs it’s bringing to you and your brand. Can you share anything about some of the things you focused on maybe as far as what specifically the podcast is doing for your visibility?
Marylou: I look at the opt-ins, I look at my website, I look at my LinkedIn profile and how many people view it everyday. It’s just continually ratcheting up to the point where it’s probably 4X already what it was when we started. That is significant for someone like me who really specializes mostly in long term contracts with clients, I don’t have a staff of people, it’s just me. I am now booked out as a result of all that for the 2017 already. That’s the impact, if I decided I wanted to really grow my business and add more consultants to my roster, I would probably have a lot more business but I’m just booked out now to the point where I can just be in creative mode.
Craig: That’s a good problem to have, right?
Marylou: Yeah, keep building and keep putting out quality products. I think this online offering is my next step.
Craig: Neat. Do you want to share a little bit about what your plans are there?
Marylou: With my list and on LinkedIn, I put out a blurb a few weeks ago asking for some brave souls to go through a six-week course with me on predictable prospecting. I had 200 people fill out a survey and I was looking for 12, so that gives you an idea of how this book has really resonated and all the different things I’m doing from a PR perspective have hit home. Now, I have my students and we’re working through the course and I wanted to teach it to see if I can even teach a course like this and have it make sense for people. It’s becoming very obvious that it’s an offering that is needed, it’s an offering that people are asking me about all the time.
After I go through this course with my beta group, brave sales executives, I’m going to go ahead and put together probably an eight week course it’s looking like. There’s going to be a free course that goes along with the book. For people who buy the book, they will be able to go through a core teaching on the book but me diving deeper into each subject. For example, there’s cold emails and follow up emails that are in chapters four through six. I’ll take them through how to design that for their specific business so they can build a predictable stream of prospects who want to have a conversation with them.
I’m excited, I don’t think I would’ve ever gone down this path had I not had the book and had to figure out ways to help people first of all become aware of the book and then now that they are and using it, I’ve got full conversations going about how do I really master what’s in that book.
Craig: I think it’s great. We launched a How To Launch A Podcast course recently. The thing I like about these types of products, we have a book, now we have a course, and we have our service. It’s a nice way for us to be able to give a bunch of different type of people, at different stages in their journey or that have different budgets or different needs, different types of solutions.
We now in a sense, you’re very much down the same path, are able to say if you’re at this stage or at this budget, or you’re a small business or a startup, here’s my book. If you’re looking for a more complete solution and probably a quicker and more sure path to the desired result, here’s an eight week training course. If you just want someone to tell you all the answers, here’s my consulting service where we’ll work in a very intensive way. I just like being able to provide multiple ways that people can say yes based on what they need, and I don’t think it’s wrong at all, and I don’t think it takes away from our core offering which for us is our service and I think probably for you still is your consulting. It adds to the service you provide to people.
Marylou: You just spread the love, just more of you to share with other people.
The other thing I have in my pocket too is I’ve got different skill levels of people, I have newcomers to prospecting all the way to people like me, colleagues, who want to master my framework and teach it to their clients and actually consult. I have defined five different levels of skill in doing prospecting and I plan to come out with offerings for all of the above.
When you’re having these discussions, how do you identify the different segments of your audience to know what to create and what their needs are, what kind of process have you gone through to break your entire audience into chunks and then address their specific needs?
Marylou: What I did was I put together a survey, I put the blurb out on LinkedIn, I sent it to my email list and told them about the class. They went and filled out a survey, the survey gave me enough information so that I knew a, their skill level like we talked about. And then, I defined the path of success from where people are to where I could get them and had them self select where they were along that path. Now, I had two fundamental pieces of information that gave me an idea of skill level and also where they were along that success path.
The third piece which I’m so glad I did and I never really thought about it was I asked what role they played in the company or their business. I was blown away because the book is about prospecting B2B, I had so many real estate people, the B2C. The other thing about the book is it talks about separating the sales roles, that’s left over from Predictable Revenue where one organization would have prospectors and they would have closers, sometimes they call them hunters and farmers. 48% of my people still do all sales roles, prospecting is just one component of what they do.
I would’ve never known that had I not done that survey. My courses wouldn’t have resonated as much because they have to segment out their day with all the different sales hats that they’re playing.
Craig: As someone who wears a lot of hats, I can say that it’s a little exhausting and a little self defeating to say, “Okay, I’m going to go be the hunter.” Once you get the lead in, “Okay, I’m going to close it.” Even worse, “Okay, I’m going to onboard them and fulfill the setup.” I listened to the first book, and when I heard the breaking down of responsibility I said holy crap, I can’t believe I’ve been doing this wrong for so long because it really is, it’s a curse. The more successful you are at prospecting, the harder your job is everyday because you have so much more down the funnel work that you have to do. That’s huge.
Marylou: The courses are going to be different depending on that the workflows are different. How I teach them is different. Those types of things, to know that upfront and to ask, there’s so many survey tools to do that now. That was a big eye opener for me as to who’s following me, why they’re following me, how they consume my information, that was another question I asked, a lot of them listen. A podcast is great for that.
Craig: Getting back to the podcast a little bit, how do you see the structure or the content and type of people that you bring on the show changing now that the book is relatively launched and moving into some different types of products.
Marylou: I think we’re going to continue along the vein of interviewing sales professionals. I think I’m going to get more into the actual doers, asking people who are sales executives to come on the show and talk about their process and talk about what they got out of a process like mine so that it’s more real as opposed to an expert telling you what to do, it’s real life case studies and use cases. I think I’m going to add in this teaching component using the podcast for that purpose as well, kind of a master study for those who want to deeper dive into fundamentals of the book. Also, to do some teaching in other areas surrounding the book that are not necessarily covered in the book.
I think it’s going to morph into a deep dive session probably once a month, an interview with a colleague, an interview with an actual person who’s doing the work, and then just a fun exercise of, “This is your homework for today.”
Craig: That makes a lot of sense. I think that expanding on the content of the book and bridging a little bit of that gap between the book and the course via the podcast in a way that’s easily consumable for a lot of people in the top of the funnel is a great lead to some of your other products. I think we have some plans for similar type of thing here.
I love the case study approach that you’re taking because I think it’s nice for people to be able to say, “Wow, Marylou is exactly in the same shoes that I’m in, I’m an author and I’m looking to do this and I’m going to move into products later. How can I make a podcast work for me?” We tried to do that with this show to where we bring on a bunch of different types of people, comedians and all this kind of stuff to say hopefully one exact person can relate your guest, and I think that’s when it’s really powerful.
Marylou: I agree. In our role, we get a lot of rejection up at the top of funnel. I think that if people can identify with a person I’m interviewing, the road that they came through, it’s not all glorified, it’s not all happily ever after at the end. I want to bring on people who have taken that first step, what their experience has been, and then just try to get people along the funnel further into that success path that we talked about before so that people can identify and say, “You know what, I can do this too.”
That’s really what I want this podcast for, for them to come away thinking I can do this, I can get this done. Whatever your goal is, whether it’s to provide for your family, to have more cool toys, whatever, you can definitely use this podcast for that purpose to reach your goals.
Craig: I’m going to ask you a question about content and marketing versus prospecting and cold outreach. Even in a B2B world, you come from a very outbound approach towards business and visibility and brand building and everything. Now that you’re in content mode and more of an inbound approach, how have you enjoyed or seen the difference in the two approaches?
Marylou: The inbound to me is a labor of love because you’re not going to get that specificity around the numbers, it just isn’t there. People are choosing to engage with you. The thing I love about outreach is that we choose them, so there’s the minnows and the whales coming inbound, but outbound you get to target who you’re going after. I do think that the inbound pieces, this labor of love as I call it, are really having me perfect my game so that when I do reach out to people I don’t know on the outreach side, I have a really compelling story.
I’ve had so many interviews with people, I’m hearing firsthand, I can hear it in their voice when they’re struggling. It’s allowed me to really get those pain points or challenge bubbling up to the top and ordering them in a way where people are just leaning on, waiting for me to finish my sentence. They’re like, “Where do I sign? How do I get this going?” It’s been good for that.
Craig: I think that getting out into the real world a little bit is a nice thing about a podcast or blogging and guest interviews and things like that because you get a bunch of different perspectives to where you can piece those together to build your own arsenal or pitch like you were talking about to where you have a lot of the answers or you’ve seen almost everything after a while.
Marylou: What you hit on too is that wow, what great storytellers we become. We have so many case studies, so many stories to prove our point or to amplify our point because we’ve heard it from someone who’s been there. Those are the most engaging pieces of information you could ever have, if you wrap all of your teachings up into stories. People remember stories more than they remember 100 conversations, 10 discovery calls equals 8 to 10 opportunities a month.
They don’t necessarily remember all that but they remember the girl who sat down at her desk at 6:00PM with her coat on and she did not leave until she got one more appointment and how year after year she made president’s club. That’s a true story. That really hits the whole habit component of what we do in prospecting.
Craig: That’s awesome. Marylou, I’d love to wrap up with a lesson learned or a thing that you wish you knew when you started podcasting (that I didn’t tell you about) or that you’ve come to appreciate for people who might be new to podcasting or are really coming from the B2B side of things.
Marylou: The first one is don’t worry about your equipment, I’m using a $30 microphone right now and I’m sure it sounds pretty good. You don’t have to obsess over getting high end tools.
The second thing is just really be yourself and maybe practice on your family or friends, the interviewing process. Keep it as authentic as who are you are because that’s what comes through, your authenticity, your love for whatever it is that you’re selling or working on. That comes through in the tone of your voice. The tone of your voice is what gets people excited.
Craig: I love that. Marylou, where can folks find out more about you, the book, and your podcast?
Marylou: The website for me is maryloutyler.com. When you go to the website, I think the first or second navigation is podcasting so just click on that. You guys have set up a wonderful fronted user interface of clicking on the podcast articles and pictures of the folks I’ve interviewed. The book is published by McGraw Hill so that means it’s available in all book outlets, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, I even saw it at an airport.
Craig: Marylou, thanks so much for coming on the show today, really appreciate it, it was great.
Marylou: Thank you, enjoyed it.
Craig: Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the PodcastMotor Show. If you’re enjoying the show, head on over to iTunes and leave us a review. I’d love to hear what you think. As always, head on over to podcastmotor.com for more great resources on how you can become a better podcaster. We’ll see you next time.